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What we're looking for: - Contest ideas to use - Contest ideas to not use - Features on site (like Trivia, or Pet Store) we should promote - Features on site we should put less effort into, or remove - Ideas for new feature on site - A site "theme" -- something unique about Elfpack we can advertise, to draw more members. - Rewards members are interested in from the Council - Other such like things What we probably can't do: - Completely change the site design or layout - Small changes should be possible however. - Large scale changes [Hedda] would personally need to do. What we can't do, and don't want: - Change the site name. - We don't want "Fire/kick/ban this person for xxx-reason." If you really think someone is making trouble, message [Stephen] personally. |
Number of voters: 36
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: Maybe [Hedda] will give us source code...
2013-02-05 [Stephen]: He won't.
Unless he's really changed mind lately, I know he won't. :P
2013-02-05 [Cerulean Sins]: Elfpack app. It might get more people interested in joining us and plus it will be easier for members that use smart phones, tablets, I pads etc to use :-)
2013-02-05 [Cerulean Sins]: Facebook has an app.
Twitter has an app.
Why shouldn't we?
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: [Stephen] I was being sarcastic lol
[Cerulean Sins] That actually is pretty clever... I've got a bit of code coughed up to automate the messaging part. I can actually compile an Elfpack app. The only thing is the dev fee Apple charges if people want it on iPhone. I am also not sure if there is or isn't an Android dev fee...
In the least though I can create a mobile web app that will be free & accessible from any modern phone.
If on the other hand people insist on Apple/Android apps, we will need to discuss this project more seriously. I don't want to put effort in a project no one will use...
2013-02-05 [Cerulean Sins]: [Schlachter] Sweet. I would love to talk tech with you but, sadly, I know BEEP all about apps and app building. But thanks for thinking my idea was clever :D
2013-02-05 [sammie h!]: I know this is a strange one but how about using some of the donation money to advertise Elfpack on Facebook so do a Facebook add. :)
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: [Cerulean Sins] No need to talk tech, ;) talk numbers. Get me a head count on how many people want the app for iPhone, how many for Android, how many for FREE (& not support the Goddamn tyrant companies), how many for another system. I'll take care of the rest. Since it's your idea, if you believe in it, we can make it happen -- & you get to be project manager of it XD.
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: [sammie h!] I don't think Elfpack gets enough donations to fuel that... otherwise there wouldn't be ads here :(
If there are any donations, they would go to pay for the Internet connection up in Sweden to host this site (along with hosting costs which I may have a way of avoiding if [Hedda] is willing to change providers & hardware while at the same time speeding up Elfpack).
Also, a Facebook APP would be better than an AD. The difference is in the interactive component.
2013-02-05 [Cerulean Sins]: [Schlachter] See what the others say and then I'll get your numbers, hun.
[sammie h!] Good idea but to be honest, I personally ignore Facebook adds.
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: [Cerulean Sins] So we wait for opinions to show up here or...? We should also add the option of a Facebook app as proposed by [sammie h!]. We can put the ad on the list... but we will need to get an idea of what kind of donations we get here along with what it costs to run an ad that size. Seeing we're probably strapped on funds, we may not be able to do ads.
2013-02-05 [Cerulean Sins]: [Schlachter] Yeah it says up above that we discuss ideas and see what we can and can not do, hun.
2013-02-05 [sammie h!]: Yeah [Cerulean Sins] I see your point, but at least we will get some clicks, but then again its like 1p pair click. :)
Yeah and the app was michelles idea, the ad was mine lol. X
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: [Cerulean Sins] Sounds good. So let's wait & see then dear.
2013-02-05 [sammie h!]: How about making a youtube account for Elfpack, where we can put videos of members on Introducing themselves, and have stephen make one about what Elfpacks all about? X
2013-02-05 [GlassCasket]: I think something that people are forgetting a lot about is toggery. I don't know about your parts of the world but over here card games/tabletop
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: [Stephen] or [Hedda] would have to open the account... but it's not Elfpack style to go & send out ads...
Deal is, I think we should focus more on trying to reduce the rate people are leaving Elfpack. It is great to increase the rate people join, but if no one will stay, what is the point...
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: Actually, improving the game play of Toggery is not a bad idea either...
How could we do that? I'm not sure how it is even played XD
2013-02-05 [Cerulean Sins]: Daniel that is a fab idea, darling! Just one question....ho
2013-02-05 [Stephen]: @Sammie: Last time I knew, Elfpack very rarely gets donations. As in, I don't think we've got a single donation in the time I was Warden.
I love would an Elfpack App, I think that'd be awesome. Getting Toggery up again would be a lot of work, but it may be worth it. I haven't because I've only had three people total ask me about it.
2013-02-05 [Schlachter]: I think a poll on these things would probably help clear things up. Plus [Morgoth] can code as well, so it's not just going to be a one-man army for most of these things (code-wise).
P.S.: [Stephen] I love would? Crazy talk! You should stop peeping into bob's diner lol.
2013-02-05 [sammie h!]: Elfpack app is a great idea, it would be good as a lot of people have tablets, blackberrys iphones and android phones. :)
@Stephen yeah I see your point there. X
How about making it more family friendly? X
*Brain storming* lol
2013-02-05 [GlassCasket]: Well i think toggery could be re-vamped, it'd be pretty time-consuming but it wouldn't be too difficult it would just take a lot of time.
2013-02-05 [sammie h!]: Yeah that's true. :)
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: Added poll. :P
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: @Sammie: What does family friendly mean?
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: lol... it means "impossible"
Now to fetch us some voters...
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: It means where elders and juniors would enjoy the site to. (:
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: The atmosphere of Elfpack isn't really family friendly.
We're actually more "troll friendly". I'd have to do a serious revamp of the rules to be more family friendly, and most of the remaining active members would probably end up breaking them a lot. x)
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: Yeah I see your point there, and it may lead in more loss of members, how about contacting previous members then on like a mass email lol? x
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: [Hedda] has done that once (or twice?) now, about three months after I became Warden and when things were starting to pick up.
As [Schlachter] has pointed out, the biggest problem is the fact we're losing members more than gaining them. We should ideally find ways to keep current members involved and entertained, and then work on expanding our memberbase; otherwise members think there's little to do and quit.
I think, personally, wiki's like Bob's Diner should be promoted more. People like to chat; if we can appeal as a fun site to screw around and chat, while also offering photo uploading/stor
Biggest problem with that is most of the community.. doesn't act like a community. We have over 200 members who log on once a week, for some period of time, but they don't really interact with one another. If we can find ways to get these members more involved and more into the actual community idea, we can expand from there.
.. I just have no idea how. ):
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: How about, we make a proper interactive gaming wiki, me and Mort could help design it, 65% of Internet users do gaming on the web. :)
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: I've thrown that idea out there and even done things like it.
No one does anything with it. :P
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: I would. I can gather a lot of iframed games off the web. (:
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: I've done that before. :P
For a while I had a link to a page with iframe'd games on Mainstuff, no one did anything with it so I didn't bother renewing the link. *shrug*
2013-02-06 [Cerulean Sins]: I know this may be a shit idea but....I'm just gonna chuck it out there.
As we all know on our profiles there is a section called Other interests and if you click on an interest you can see other people that are into the same thing as you.
How about we create a wiki page for each interest, this way more Elfpackers will interact with each other and share tips on where to find the cheapest beer or books etc. Yes it will be a lot of work to keep each page running and keeping it up to date but it might work or it might not.
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: My biggest thing with that is without turning those interests into a hyperlink in the profile, most people wouldn't know those pages exist.
Hedda would need to do that, and I'm not sure if he would. I can ask him, however.
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: Yeah that is a good idea, but whether he will do it or not is another think as Elftown is his baby, but there is know harm in trying, he did say to me a while ago that he doesn't pay much attention to this site anymore, so maybe he gave up for he thought it won't pick up
Sorry for half comment before, it sent whilst I was messaging for some reason lol. :)
2013-02-06 [Cerulean Sins]: Perhaps the interests could be on the mainstuff?
There could be one wiki page with a list of interests, that list will link off to individual wiki pages for each interest :-)
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: @Sammie:
It doesn't seem like [Hedda] is too interested in doing much on any of these sites, but he's been managing them for ten years now and he gets little to no income from them, so you can't really blame him. I really wish I had more overall editing rights on site, though. ):
@Michelle
That sounds like a good idea, I'll add it to the poll. :o
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: You should message him and ask him if you can have priv one, as it may be a good idea so that you can do a lot more on the site, I'm good at stylesheet designs if you want ideas, and I understand that, he wants sites that he c an make income off, and you can't really on here unless people donate, which not many do or can afford to. :)
2013-02-06 [Cerulean Sins]: [Stephen] YAY!
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: [Cerulean Sins] I love your idea. :)
@Stephen, you should put on the poll should [Stephen] get priv one so he could do more work on Elfpack. :)
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: There's no difference at all between privs 1-4. I had priv 1 for a while. I have priv 1 on Elf12, and priv 4 on FAKE.
They all do the exact same things. :P
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: The numbers for 1-4 are just symbolic.
1 = Hedda
2 = Site Boss
3 = Dep Boss
4 = Guard Boss
See privs for more. (;
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: Oh thats weard, there should be some way you could do a lot more then? x
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: Well, it's for security reasons, I guess.
Once upon a time, someone *cough*MORT*co
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: In terms of games, Ladies, Gentlemen, Undecided, Both...
Elfpack is well known for one particular type of game & when it was popular, this type of game drew a LOT of traffic & attention.
This game is called Role Playing. Since dungeon masters have quit, so have the individuals who partook in the activity. Thus leaving behind only the "home"-sick users & the artists/artist
If we could make Elfpack more RP-friendly & start some Dungeon-wikis, we could go in for the kill. Especially if in an Elfpack App, we added the storyline of an RP instance & we made an IRC-like interface with Dungeons instead or Rooms/Channels (let's face it, our users are not afraid of getting technical in wiki-making) & the ability to get our users to draw scenarios or paysages/Lands
What do you all think?
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: @[Schlachter]: I've had it mentioned to me a few times we should try making RP'ing a bigger thing on Elfpack, which spawned the Role-Playing Contests that no one ever entered and thus it kind of just died away. ):
I would love more RP'ing here though! :D
2013-02-06 [Cerulean Sins]: [Schlachter] That is a very good point. I do RP on this site with only a few people. When I first joined there was shit loads of RPG's on the go but now I hardly ever see any new ones, which sucks. I use to RP on 15 different RPG's day about three years ago.
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: Naughty mort *smacks rist whilst he's eating reman*
I would be one of the dungeon masters if [Stephen] re opened it.
And I agree with [Schlachter]. fair point. :)
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: The lower privs (1, 2 & possibly 3) in my analysis of the site give you access to files & hosting on the server -- something you do NOT want to be tampering with unless you know what you are doing... or are a hacker XD. Don't ask me how I know this! Do not question! I just know :3 lol
Either way, I think we should factor [Hedda] out of the equation. In the end there is still a LOT we can do without him. The ability to insert iframes & formatting an Elfpack app to use the backbone structure of Elfpack can offer us phenomenal power in adding to the site.
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: Now we're going about it wrong... an RP contest is nice & grand... but who wants a contest? They want the ACTUAL Dungeon started & ready to go for them so that they can go ahead & pick a character & goof away.
I think we should improve this... by A) getting some artists busy with artwork. There are a lot of them here (most of which won't talk to me lol or have & then just stopped to -- am I that scary a person??). But we need to "inspire" said artists... they're just as gloomy as we are about this site, but out of pride won't admit it & almost never mingle with these mainstream wikis. B) so we need to find a way to inspire/motiva
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: A) [Stephen]'s the man to talk to for artists, I don't like to say this but we could try drag a few artists from Elftown to come and help us
b)That's the hard part lol. :)
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: To motivate them to draw for us, we need to get them to believe there is cause for them to be praised. Go surf the random wikis... we are stock full of artwork that is very unique to Elfpack. It is however, not organized & not dedicated to any particular Dungeon or whatnot.
So to start the domino effect, I think the starting point would be to create a central GRAND Dungeon for starters. Maybe something nice & fancy that will hint towards a "Zelda" like RP game where players can team solve some puzzles that get coughed up. Second: a schedule. We need someone with a schedule who can set the stage for people to catch in on the live fun... & others do the catching up when they can. So a "turn" for example could be set to UTC+1 5pm. This will encourage Elfpackers to keep to a schedule & log in regularly -- keeping it alive. Third: we need Dungeon masters to cough up a story line... those are equally as important as the artists. A Dungeon masters' task is difficult mind you... much like a Guards' they CANNOT be biased. They have to keep the game play fair & reasonable. Fourth, the developers: these can help hack around the antique frame of Elfpack to provide users with an enhanced experience & ease of use.
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: [sammie h!] Dragging in some users from Elftown is not a bad idea... however, we need to bribe them with something FROM Elftown to invest into the Elfpack economy...
I doubt they will care much about Elfpack. Those that do are already here & not in a mood to do much other than chat with their few friends from halfway across the world.
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: [Schlachter] - Ive already done something funny on Elftown, take a look Advertise. :)
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: [sammie h!] I don't think advertising by itself is going to be enough though... also the games linked in iframes are things people can do without Elfpack anyways.
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: the advertising is a start, we have had 143 views in 1 hour when I last checked. True, but we can get elf games together, as in games where you are an elf lol. :)
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: Okaaay, here's my thoughts on all of this. o:
Roleplaying
This would be fantastic! I'd be happy to devote whatever resources that I can to making that work better. Priv-wise, I can do any priv task, but priv 1-4 really doesn't enable me much site editing/coding powers. At all. Most of it is based on staff admin/higher mod duties. I can't even touch the official stylesheet, for example. I WISH I COULD. I'm not good at CSS, but I know people who are and I could use code they provide me.
Iframes are very powerful, however. I want to push to make all official pages more interactive. I've asked a few artists to make webart for pages to so they're more pretty -- like my Let it Snow! pages, but I'm getting little result. It's hard to motivate people when there's no rewards.
I also want to make Togs more well-known and more desirable. Any ideas about those and things I can add to the Tog Shop would be awesome.
Privs -- I can priv anyone up to a Custodian priv without discussing it with Hedda. I could probably get away with giving a few Guards privs, but he would probably sold me and there's no real reason for me to priv anyone, the staff has almost nothing to do as is. The normal Guards never have anything to do unless I ask them to handle something for me, for example.
-- Flash games on site:
Not sure how much that would help, maybe if we added them to pages like Bob's Diner and Video Games, to make already popular pages more interactive.
I have no idea how to motivate people to work though, there's no real rewards. /:
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: And we don't expect rewards, our reward would be to see this site thriving. :)
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: Poll updated!
@Sammie: Yeah, that doesn't work. People don't work for free. Everyone has some reason, and every staff member I've ever had who says "I want to see EP thrive, that's my reason *smiles and rainbows*" has quit within a year. :P
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: Well I ain't looking for no reward, if I wanted a Reward, i'd go on a bingo site *searches bingo*. :)
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: Well it's like another thing you could do is, pay in togs to the crew:
Volunteers 1 tog a month
Council: 5 togs a month
Guards 7 togs a month
Guard captians 10 togs a month etc.
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: That'd be an insane amount of Togs. :P
Most expensive thing in the Tog Shop costs 100 Togs, and it doesn't even exist yet.
By rights I should have several hundred Togs, but I almost never credit myself, lol. Although there's really nothing I need from the shop anyway...
It's pretty easy to get Togs already, you could get 5-10 a week if you actually tried. :P
2013-02-06 [sammie h!]: it's like be for example, I want colors lol, can't donate due to lack of money, only just got enough for my son to live off, never mind me otherwise I would. :)
2013-02-06 [Stephen]: Well, by rights a donation is ~13 USD.
A normal (non-college level) job is ~7.50/hour, pre tax. For simplicity sake, say two hours of work = 13 USD.
If you actually put some effort into it, you could get enough togs for a donation within two or three hours. Donor rights are 35 Togs.
Just for entering all the official contests going right now, you would get 10.5 Togs, for something that miiight take 30 miunutes.
If you won any of them, (which you would, since some have no entries), that's anywhere from 10-20 togs, so you'd be looking at about 25 Togs from 30 minutes of work.
I'm not making Togs easier to get. :P
2013-02-06 [Schlachter]: Clearly the Elfpack economy is not good enough to interest anyone... yet...
This is a tough one...
Just out in the open here...
What if we paid people in virtual RP credits? Say we cough up some system where users can have an Elfpack character for RP-ing (several even) which, in order to update or add qualities would need those RP credits?
2013-02-07 [Stephen]: Hm, that'd be an interesting idea.
Getting your character better, to be more involved? I like that..
2013-02-07 [Endings Start]: Thanks for this invite, in the event that it didn't just get sent to everyone. I've said my piece in great detail before [Stephen], and my opinion hasn't changed much. You can dig up my previous conversation if you want, I forget where it is. If you'll remember, I'm fairly blunt.
Anyway, I voted for phone app (not easy to do at all), "better graphics" because it was closes to the root of the problem, and improving peoples profiles, etc.
The reward problem you speak of is major, but part of a process. The "Reward" that Elfpack offers (and what you seek) is the members themselves, not any special privilege. The reason people come to this place is to chat with others outside of like Facebook or whatever, but since barely anyone is here, there is no reward. So, you need to get people to come here.
How can you do that?
- Advertising
- Easier access through mobile app
- Not looking like a Geocities website
Participation in roleplaying, games, contests and the like comes with people visiting, not the other way around. Then you can hand out participation rewards.
As always, take my comments as you will. Tell me I know nothing if you like but I'm not here to argue, I only offer advice from a position of experience and knowledge. It's up to you if you want to listen to what I say or not.
2013-02-07 [sammie h!]: Yeah the mobile app will be hard work, but great success could come out of it.
I am currently advertising everwhere I can with evidence to.
I will have to sort of agree with your comment, it shows a good view of the site. :)
2013-02-07 [Schlachter]: It seems [Endings Start] is confirming all of the above...
The phone app is not a big deal, it can start small, then evolve... slowly. I can start an Open Source Project for it on sourceforge if we have enough of a vote on it & other devs can join in when they have time. A project like a messaging tool wouldn't take more than 2 weeks on a not-so-busy schedule for me.
I would be concerned if we cannot even cough up 50 voters on this wiki though...
The order however proposed by [Endings Start] I don't agree with simply because we have nothing new to advertise & even if we blow all our shots on it, it would be for nothing because people will collect here & get bored.
The order should be:
1- Develop app(s) & attractions
2- Advertise (let [sammie h!] handle it)
3- Create a member-meter & try to reach a goal number OR keep the site low-profile & keep it a closed community (this is up to those of us now who carry the Elfpack torch)
4- Inject Botox into Elfpack & make it young again (i.e.: not a Geocities-look
The fact the site looks like a Geocities 90's website that was designed for 56k modems (back in the dial-up days -- yes I'm antique I know) is a very big problem indeed, so the content of the site HAS to compensate for its lack of design. When [Hedda] sees that things are picking up, he might give us access to more tweaking on the site or let another dev take over where he left off.
2013-02-07 [Endings Start]: I should have specified that my little list was in no particular order, sorry.
2013-02-07 [Schlachter]: No I figured it wasn't, I just wanted to add that to the recipe.
We need a large crew of artists... that's what we need. I can cough up phone app guts in minutes... it's the artwork that is hell. In fact we have tons of artists here... I'm itching to give away their anonymity, but I shouldn't...
If we can get some artists to cooperate, it can go a long way... I don't know how to get their attention though?! Sex? Love? Drugs? Seriously... they don't talk to me -.-' & I've been borderline harassing them as far as not being an asshole can take me.
I mean SERIOUSLY!!! One of them just VOTED & didn't even bother looking or commenting in the comments section. Sick! Why would you do that? *twitches*
I say we go on an artist witch-hunt...
*sigh* I guess we'll just have to draw shit ourselves... literally...
2013-02-07 [sammie h!]: Yeah. Well I would also like to find out if any of the crew have blackberrys and use the messanger as I do, I do mostly for advertising now as you all know I do website work (inspired by hedda) but 90% of the time I'm advertising elfpack and telling them what its about, and as I advised [Stephen], a few people came to me and send the sign up process is huge, and may I just mention, I bet most of the public hardly use there emails due to having smart phones, so how can you expect them to accept the confirmation email, maybe changing that to number for confirmation link to be sent to (free) and they click the link then wait for a reply, ten times easier and faster. :)
2013-02-07 [Schlachter]: That would be pretty hard to pull off... that e-mail function is core functionality.
2013-02-07 [Endings Start]: Oh, and the forum. Please don't defend it, it's among the least friendly and usable things ever. Either delete it, or fix it.
Someone complained that members don't act like members - one part of that is that they have no place to actually talk to one another easily in a public place. It's all private messages and weird site alerts.
In my mind, the front page should be a forum.
But that's too much work. :/
2013-02-07 [sammie h!]: Not really, all you would have to do is put a chatbox on it or a comment box. :)
2013-02-07 [Stephen]: @[Schlachter]
I would be concerned if we cannot even cough up 50 voters on this wiki though...
I invited every member who has logged on within the last month to this page, so in theory something like 500~ people should see it.
Artists
I can get us at least four artists, at least two of which are professional grade, probably more. Spending most of my time socializing with everyone has benefits. However, what would these artists do? Anything CSS I cannot change.
@Sammie:
Emails/Applica
I only use my email via Smartphones, and Blackberries are designed for the corporate use, meaning they're very good with emails. My phone is a Motorola Atrix HD 2 and I don't ever check, read, send or anything else email unless it's on my phone. :P
Also, sending the free text to a phone wouldn't work unless Hedda paid the texting fee, and then he'd hands down lose money. (Rounding for international costs, that'd be about .75 USD per text, which is 7.25 per 10 people who even apply -- and if someone hates him, they could spend all day blowing through his money with that system.)
I can ask to have the forced email confirmation completely removed and just have members submit an application that is either accepted or not, but without an email they have no way of knowing when I accept the application. Most forums require email verification, anyway.
Speaking to [Hedda]
UNLESS I can go "Hey, look at this proposed change that 100+ members have all agreed on and would like, and this would help you out in a way to earn more income/have less work/etc," don't bother. I don't blame him, anyway. I wouldn't be too surprised if hosting Elfpack costs him more than it makes him. :P
@Endings:
Forums
Eh, I don't like normal forums, to be honest. I actually really like the threaded forums just because it makes it easier to track discussions. Maybe the ability to toggle between threaded and normal forums, if it were possible. Threaded discussions make professional discussions easier, since I can follow each chain of direct replies to one of my posts.
Have you actually ever used the threaded forums for more than an hour or two? I use to hate them back in '04, but now I've racked up a total of over 50,000 posts between Hedda's various sites.
[Hedda] has, however, said he plans on revamping the forums. What that means I do not know.
If you don't like the forums though, don't use them. Talk on a wiki-page; other than the lack of quote system, the comments of a wiki-page function very close to the conventional forum system and there's a lot of talk pages on Elfpack.
"Improvements"
I need details. More details, better. Images are even better. People who can make the code are best. If I can go "HERE HEDDA, HAVE SOME CODE AND APPLY IT PLEASEEE!" he might well do it. If I go "Members think we should make things easier to do" he'll be like "Okay." and if I go "Members think you should take EP and make it look like this picture" he'll go "Eh, maybe sometime later."
New Member Participation
The issue with that, is new members do not stay. 85% of every application I've accepted, is now a dead account. We're a confusing community, and I've pretended to be a new member before -- if you send someone a message going "Hi there! I'm new and looking for friends" 9/10 people ignore it. One person sent my pretend newbie a threat to report them to the Guards for sending a hi message. /:
Overall; if this pans out and we can get people interested and on the incline, [Hedda] will show interest. When we were doing well before I ended up being hospitalized and my Deputy Warden retired, Hedda was logging on daily, commenting in the Crew/Guards forum and vaguely discussing ideas with me.
Likely, if we can present things in a form to him that equates to "doing this is income", he'll be more inclined to do so.
2013-02-07 [sammie h!]: Very true stephen, he won't really do anything until he sees we are trying our hardest, look at me, its 5:56am and I'm still on lol x
2013-02-07 [Stephen]: Actually, that's not true either.
I highly doubt it matters if we try our hardest or not. Results matter, not much else. :P
2013-02-07 [sammie h!]: That's what I meant lol. :)
2013-02-07 [Schlachter]: Okay... big post... but good, good...
SMS
There are ways to send them for free using provider web interfaces; but I don't think this is a big deal.
Artwork
I need buttons, frames, sliders, tabs... you name it. Also, some epic background pictures & fantasy drawings would be killer.
App
The web app can be co-hosted along Elfpack (& only accessible through Elfpack) if the code change in design is too substantial and [Hedda] proves too lazy to want to change anything to help his own site out. & as I said before, if he pays any money for hosting or Internet (a former Elfpack member I met sometime in real life has a fiber hosting/data center company I worked for while I was in Germany, I could talk him into helping us for free), I can set him up with an ad-free hosting environment where he does not have to pay a dime. But that has to be taken up with [Hedda].
Reward system
I am suggesting creating an RP portal where users can buy profiles with EP currency. i.e.: their help will earn them a Dungeons & Dragons-inspir
So yes, this means BLEEDING amounts of artwork.
[Stephen] way to go with the idea of walking amongst the commoners. That is a real eye-opener. Hail the wise King of Elfpack! lol
2013-02-07 [sammie h!]: Wooh, I just read a book lol, very good idea. :)
2013-02-07 [Stephen]: SMS
Nice to know.
App
I'll see if he's interested in that. o3o
Reward system
ACTUALLY, I've wanted to do something very close to this before, but I was stuck at the "Too much work for Hedda" phase. I could probably get a small team of artists if we can make a template that's realistic.
2013-02-07 [GlassCasket]: I like the idea of the reward system, it could in fact be fine tuned to be more like DnD...I dunno about you guys but i feking love that game O.o We could have like...a DM or moderator of sorts for different quests and shit too i dunno...LOL call it EPnD(Elfpack and Dragons)
2013-02-07 [Schlachter]: [Stephen] no problem. Didn't think of it before posting it actually... but I doubt anyone is interested in hacking a site like Elfpack right now. Even [Hedda] I'm sure is aware of bugs & doesn't care...
App
The results of this poll will dictate whether the OSS project of the Elfpack App gets birth or not. Then we will have to recruit for it next... then we can make it.
Reward system
[Hedda] probably wants to see results first before lifting a finger.
So here is what I propose: recruit all artists possible. We can promise them online "web-kiosks" where we can promote their art commercially or for fans (kind of like Deviant-Art but with links to the actual in-game art) as a reward system. That & the ability to earn Elfpack currency which the system will use in the future for the RP stuff. This might get their attention...
We will do the work on a separate hosting server which I will supply (I have a few accounts here & there that serious crew members can have access to to help). This server will be linked with Elfpacks "upgrades" & "updates". When it all works nice & fine on the testing base, we can then integrate it officially (if [Hedda] agrees) or... unofficially (I'll PM you about that).
I will message you about the CSS-glitch stuff; there are a lot of... ways ;3
I think everyone here LOVES D&D; that or they have not seen it yet, & we can show them then. We need a crew of storytellers & lore experts who are well-read in fiction & fantasy (no... more than Twilight please; minimum mastery of 4-5 novels written before 2003 -- i.e.: the Hobbit, LOTR, Wheel of Time, Eragon, the original D&D handbook is a plus, etc.) as well. That crew can then form the elite EPnD crew who will be entirely taking care of creating new maps & dungeons, inspiring the artists to draw magical things for them & so on...
This art can be promoted & sold to fans for support to the individual artists with the option of collecting a small donation fee for Elfpack if desired. I'm not into the politics of this, but you all get the idea of what can be done...
The only decision NOW is whether to go through with EPnD or not regardless of poll results. I am up for the task.
I say the poll results should vote for everything ELSE. Otherwise, we should all accept the fate of this website (i.e.: an electronic desert) & just continue trolling each other as we do everyday until kingdom come.
2013-02-08 [Stephen]: tired, but I want to respond to this:
@[GlassCasket]: Good idea name, lol.
@[Schlachter]:
Bug
Issue with that is I invited EVERY active member, so if any of them feel malicious, that'd be a fantastic start. :3 xD
App
Well, it's the second most popular option so far. 16 people have voted, 8 people have the page on watch. xD;
Reward System
I really like this idea. Pretty much all of it.
Although with as small as the crew and site both are, getting it started might be a huge task.
EPnD
Heck, even I really like DnD, I have the 2nd and 3rd edition handbooks. They're dusty and I haven't touched them since I was like 16, but I own them. :3 That'd be something I'd be interested in really going after, and I'd be more than happy to reform the crew titles/jobs to focus mostly on that. I want to redo a lot of job/titles/res
Money for Elfpack would probably be nice. Hedda would be around more if this site gave him income, I'm pretty sure.
I'd say go through with it regardless, but see what other people can throw at us for ideas. :P
PS: You're about to suddenly get a on-site promotion. xD
2013-02-08 [GlassCasket]: Hey i feel i deserve an honorary title for such an awesome name dammit! ((Also i know a guy who has every goddamn book on DnD In the history of ever sooo >.>))
2013-02-08 [kittykittykitty]: I can't even begin to think of the amount of work 'EPnD' would involve. But will that be something that primarily attracts people to the site, or something to do once they're already here? If it's the former, then I don't think EP is the right place for it; it should be a personal project.
For me, EP has always been a place of varied interests. Not everyone is into fantasy, not everyone is into art, photography, roleplaying, video games, talking about cats, cybering, your religion, your eating disorder, your favourite anime, or whatever niche it has catered to. It's about none of those things, but allows you to seek out others who share the same interest, to talk about it all day in the comments, learn what others people are into, work on a wiki as a collaborative project, work on a personal project for others to see, find interesting people, or fill your profile with ascii art and random quotes from the interwebs.
If people want fantasy, they'll go to Elftown. We should encourage diversity, rather than pigeon-holing into fantasy and losing members because they site has become too nerdy.
How to encourage this diversity I do not know. A central hub would help... right now there is none. Without really changing the site layout we can't easily funnel activity anywhere; the Elfpack Chat didn't work out because people couldn't find it.
My band-aid solution would be to add a shoutbox in the sidebar. Therefore it's on every page and people can see that EP in fact does have some life outside of private messages, and new members can see that the site isn't dead, easily ask a question or be more likely to find something. People can talk crap, link their wiki, comment on EP news perhaps (commenting on it via the forum never gets a discussion going). The functionality for it is almost already in place, with the 'show comments on your site' button.
@[Schlachter] I like the idea of art-promotion for artists and such, but I don't see what EP has to offer that a site like DA doesn't. I remember some older members e.g. Asrun promoting their art-wikis on EP (I think she even got a couple of commissions from EP members), but they should be members who enjoy the community first and foremost rather than solely using the site for advertisement. We currently (and probably won't for a long time) have a big enough userbase to make it worth it for them.
2013-02-08 [sammie h!]: [kittykittykitty] I agree actually as Elfpack has always played a big part with diversity and changing it to abit like Elftown, may destroy us, and I don't think we should take that chance.
The Shoutbox is a good idea and I know will work, all it takes is to get an Iframe whats good looking, I could look for one on Monday if you like. )
2013-02-08 [Schlachter]: [Stephen] okay, so if you're giving me the green light then I will start by putting together a frame. It will evolve with volunteers, artists & suggestions of course. I think a new wiki is deserving of this EPnD & because [GlassCasket] came up with it, it is all his fame. I actually don't care much for fame, whoever wants it can have it. I would like to see epic written all over the place, that's what!
The App should be open to all, & we will get to that bridge once we need to. EPnD should be EP only & needs to start asap so we can actually have something to advertise as fun & unique. The reward system should be integrated right into EP I think this is important or we will not get the respect of our artists, & we love them... bitchy attitudes & all XD. Money is something we can actually get, & maybe even pay our staff for so that it doesn't just depend on volunteering..
Time to pull out those dusty books... XD
[kittykittykitty] it is not AS much work as one might think from the coding perspective... but the artwork is quite a load to take on yes, & that is what I am worried about. Now if we don't affiliate this with Elfpack, I am afraid Elfpack has nothing else to offer to maintain life here... no artists, no artwork, no fun... just trolls & guards. The main idea is to KEEP Elfpack users... reward the loyal users that keep this place alive. An external user could ONLY use EPnD from within Elfpack. I am not sure if you mean to be against that or not...? But that was my suggestion... I think we should ALL move EPnD over to EPnD ([GlassCasket] please take ownership of the wiki -- it is your idea & I feel I will get flooded with things to do anyways).
You can't be serious about sending people to Elftown for fun [kittykittykitty]? Why lol? Elfpack is not about nerds, it is about fun. & if we end up with a deserted site, what fun is there to be had. All I hear of here is secluded groups & lamentations. The history has it that so many people were into storytelling & RPing... you can't take that away from EP, can you?
Were not asking to change EP, were asking to liven it, enhance it...
We can redirect the traffic to another site for starters, but in the end, I think the ultimate goal is to integrate EPnD into EP really... EPnD would not be EPnD without the EP XD.
You see, now we have a user base, but no users. In fact, it feels more like a scam to most that you cannot delete your profile here... otherwise, believe me almost everyone would have & turn their heels to it... forever. It is a good thing, but not the right attitude. I understand you are one of the very conservative guards... but if we don't do something, this place will become a true Internet graveyard. We will start getting indexed by Internet museums & history sites soon -- if we are not already XD.
But I don't understand your argument on how it could destroy us... how would adding a new feature (not removing anything here...) lose us members? Or scare off members even?
We won't touch the old system here... we will leave it as-is. But we will add on top of it for those who want that new look & feel, the new games & interactions with members from all over the world who want a homely, personalized, artistic & unique social site. Really are you against that? [sammie h!]? [kittykittykitty]?
2013-02-08 [sammie h!]: I agree with you, it will if anything make it a more interesting site, and I could draft something up for better advertisements
2013-02-10 [kittykittykitty]: I think everyone here LOVES D&D; that or they have not seen it yet, & we can show them then.
This assumption was incorrect. Not everyone does. The change of focus, if you plan to eventually integrate it into EP somehow, will make at least a few people say "hey, this is what EP is about now? I'm not really into that".
You're welcome to prove me wrong.
2013-02-10 [Schlachter]: [kittykittykitty] you're also making an empty claim. Unless you are speaking for yourself, you also have to cough up some numbers to back up your belief that people will scamper off if they see the option (not the enforcement) of having EPnD -- which I find highly unlikely.
An example:
A lot of people were against cybersex completely but it still happened nonetheless & ON Elfpack. Did people leave because of it? No... & those that did were leaving ANYWAYS because there was nothing else to do. They just put in their profile that they didn't want to hear about it & that's it. EPnD is not remotely as vile in any case. But seriously... if you're going to continue claiming that EPnD will scare away people when there is nothing left to do on Elfpack anyways... well, I'm sorry, but I don't think you're being serious now.
In any case, I will respect your desires to keep EPnD a separate site (as it is now & will be developed). When the time comes to decide whether to integrate it or not with Elfpack, a general vote can be made -- or guards/council only if you wish to keep your old Elfpack Draconian ways that ironically DID scare off all your users.
According to the poll, we have 28% of the votes for e) which is the category EPnD fits under. We can do a poll to analyze who would leave if EPnD got integrated...
2013-02-10 [Deg]: I agree somewhat with [kittykittykitty]. I have no interest in D&D, and if the site were to become entirely focused on that, I probably wouldn't have joined. However, now that I'm here, I'm certainly not going to leave and I think it's a fine idea to get people more interested. The way EP is now, I think it'd draw in more than it would shove away. So, there's that.
Comparing it to cybersex is sort of ridiculous, [Schlachter]. o.O You asked a redundant question, and when [kittykittykitty] answered, you went a little over the top. Let's keep this productive, not throwing opinions all over the place. We need to speak in generalities (i.e., overall I think EPnD would draw in more than it'd turn away), not exceptions (i.e., it might turn a handful off of EP), or else nothing is going to get done.
2013-02-10 [Schlachter]: [Deg] how am I going over the top & how is the concept of cybersex not analogous to this? People do cybersex for fun, people play D&D for fun...
I am not shoving opinions here, I am just trying to defend the idea that adding things to Elfpack could not possibly scare people off. This is inconclusive obviously, but not an opinion. Intuitively, it makes no sense for someone to run away because there is an enhancement on the available things to do here... RPing is already here [Deg]... how would improving the tools for it scare people off? No one was scared off by Toggery & not everyone plays it. Did people leave because of it? Not everyone has Giffie Pets, Badges or is part of the Council. Does everyone have to agree with every little detail on the site? Otherwise they would leave? Really? Come on now girls, let's be a little bit more reasonable here...
2013-02-10 [Deg]: I've stated twice in my comment that I thought it was a good idea. So.
2013-02-10 [Schlachter]: But [Deg] you still said I was going over the top though... that's why...
I'm not asking for a green light really, just arguing XD. In the end, this is all just speculative. I mean, we have just 18 votes... this is frankly a much bigger disaster for Elfpack. Not to mention the fact that I STILL will not integrate anything I do, including the App (if it ever gets made) into Elfpack without a majority vote or consensus & at least some kind of a heads up from [Hedda].
2013-02-10 [Deg]: Only because I felt your response was going on the offense when it didn't need to. In fact, I feel talked down to when you say things like, "Let's be reasonable, girls". I haven't seen any statement that's been unreasonable, this is a brainstorming activity that hopefully will lead to positive changes.
2013-02-10 [Deg]: Whoa, and then you added more to your comment, haha. Didn't see that.
Yeah, that's unfortunate. I've been watching this page and only a handful have been sending comments back and forth, really. The poll should have many more votes, I know [Stephen] sent out the alert to everyone...how much effort does it take to vote on a poll, really? The text-heavy comment box I can understand is intimidating, but a poll?
Anyway, I guess just keep throwing ideas back and forth, it's bound to generate something.
2013-02-10 [Schlachter]: [Deg] well I do apologize if I sound rash in any way. I don't mean to offend & I am not trying to talk down to anyone. & if I did offend anyone I am willing to apologize to them publicly & formally if they feel it necessary. This is not my goal. Though I try hard with the English language, I understand it is not my first language so please do not feel like I mean to talk down to anyone.
This is kind of what I mean by "being unreasonable": 500 people notified, only 18 think it worthwhile to put a vote & even fewer throw a comment in the comments section; & then there's the issue of scaring people away with EPnD? It does seem obvious to me from most viewpoints... but maybe I am missing something here, but no one seems to be arguing properly in that direction.
& since you are not into D&D [Deg] maybe you could help us out with some type of unique game idea or addition you would like to see on Elfpack? Again, I think it is obvious we have to add something here if we want people to stay... but I may be wrong.
2013-02-10 [Deg]: On the contrary, I think D&D is a fine idea, like I said before. The chances are that it'd draw in many more than it'd pull away, and anything interactive is a good idea. However, there are plenty of games/interact
I think a big issue would be to stop making so many small contests, and focus instead on having a couple events/games that are updated regularly (this is a MUST).
As for what games I'd enjoy, I couldn't even begin to figure out how this would work. I'm not a technology-per
2013-02-10 [Schlachter]: [Deg] what kind of games/interact
I agree, but [Stephen] is doing that... he proposed chess tournaments & the like... with near 0 participation. A lot of us feel like this is because the games are not attractive to new users...
Elfpack can have flash games through iframes, but the deal is... why play them on a cluttered iframe when you can just go to the site directly...
EPnD & other future games are intended to use the existing member-base of Elfpack & connect into the wiki & userspace directly so that the flash game allows say... multi-player for example or... the ability to get a badge with your high score put directly on your profile... with the ability of another member who wishes to challenge you for a badge or high score just go to your profile & click "DEATHMATCH"!!
2013-02-10 [sammie h!]: Just read all the comments:
Right, EPND & D&D is a great idea, this will not scare people away, all it is is just another part to the site, its not like we are deforming the site in any way, people can still use it the traditional way.
Look at facebook for example, that changes all the time, a change would benafit us all, it is time for change, change is good.
I like the gaming idea, and we could all think of games we like and do a vote on it.
[Deg] he was not on the offencive rampage, I've seen that side lol, he was just trying to get you to see his point, everyones view is appreciated. :)
2013-02-10 [Deg]: I don't even know how to play chess. The idea of chess being a fun interactive game is...um. Well. Boring. To me, anyway. It goes along with the whole "gray" theme of Elfpack. The first thing anyone sees when they find their way to Elfpack is the color scheme and I think that in general probably turns a handful of possible applicants away, to be frank. It doesn't set the right emotions. It feels...dusty. And then, right on the front page, is a plea to Elfpackers to help get the site working again. I'd be like, whoa man, this place is dying. Unless someone invited me directly, I wouldn't probably stick around long. Especially once I realized it really is dying.
So. Let's start with the basics, before getting into more games. We have to start from the foundation and build upwards. Can we get a new color scheme? Nothing huge, but...
And then the interactive stuff. I don't know how to work the games, and I don't really have anything to suggest. Some sort of RP game would be awesome, creating characters of some sort, but it all takes dedication and a group to get it started that pledge to at least actively work on it for a few months to get it going and to make sure it doesn't die.
2013-02-10 [GlassCasket]: I feel like if someone says, "Prove me wrong." It's kind of an opening for unleashing hell lol i applaud [Schlachter] for not going apeshit bonkers xD But thats besides the point.
Anywho i'll do anything i can to help out, including games/ep i know quite a bit about mythology and what-not.
2013-02-10 [Deg]: I wasn't scolding anyone, I just thought he was going out of his way to prove he was right on something that's just a suggestion. Especially when he asked. However, i agree [kittykittykitty] was definitely using instigating language, which is why overall I was in agreement with [Schlachter]. Of course, all of it is besides the point. I really didn't mean to cause this much of a deal out of it. Let's just get back on track, myself included.
2013-02-10 [sammie h!]: Yeah, I will have to agree [kittykittykitty]'s words was a bit instigating, how ever she meant no harm, and nor did [Deg].
Let's get back to redisigning Elfpack and see what we can do. :)
2013-02-10 [Schlachter]: lol I knew it; I couldn't imagine life without chess though XD
To all their own views lol
About the front page, we can get a CSS "update" in place ([sammie h!] you said you know how to handle CSS right?) we just need someone to barf up the new colors & give an idea of what we want it to look like...
Don't ever worry about the technical stuff, we'll figure that out. I guess that's why [Stephen] had me shoved with the magicians... o.0' eep!
For now, not to get anyone hopes too high... the EPnD site will just offer a character editor & database. That's it! For now that is... each EP user gets one for free... if they want to add stuff to them or change stuff, that will cost EP moneys. That's something [Stephen] & the rest of us will need to orchestrate.
These characters can be used as a bit more than avatars, but will help when doing RP stuff I imagine. Including some helpers such as digital-dice & the like. Story-lines & scenarios will still have to be arbitrated by individuals. Having some people come up who want to mod a setting of "Ancient Greece" with chimeras & magical titans. Or "Traditional Japan" with ninjas & samurais. Or "Medieval Hungary" with vampires & werewolves. Or just completely fantastical settings. Go wild. But we'll get there as [Deg] says...
It's not D&D, it's EPnD ;) it can be anything we want it to... & we can tweak it as we see fit.
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